Talk 186.
M.: We read a newspaper and all the articles therein, but do not care to know anything about the paper itself. We take the chaff but not the substance. The substratum on which all this is printed is the paper and if we know the substratum all else will be known (like wall and paintings).D.: You said the only ONE which exists is the REAL. What is that only ONE?
M.: The ONE only is the Sat [?], the existence, that appears as the world , the things that we see and we ourselves.
D.: What is Atman? Is there a finality for the ATMAN?
M.: First learn what is Atman. If we know this then we can query as to whether it has a finality or not. Which do you call ATMAN?
D.: Jiva [?] is ATMAN.
M.: Learn what jiva [?] is. What is the difference between jiva and Atman?
Is jiva itself Atman or is there any separate thing as Atman? There is an end for what you observe; that which is created has a destruction or end. That which is not created has no end. That which exists cannot be observed. It is unobservable. We must find out what it is that appears; the destruction of that which appears is the end. That which exists,
exists for ever; that which newly appears is later lost.
D.: What happens after birth in human form, what happens to the jiva?
M.: Let us know first what we are. We do not understand what we are, and until we know what we are there is no room for such a question. (Bhagavan obviously here refers to the confusion of body as Atman - dehatma buddhi [?] - which is the cause for this confusion of ideas of death and birth, for Atman has no birth or death, it is untainted by the elements of Earth, Fire, Air and Water, etc.) (Gita
II, 11) - Asochyam anvosochas tvam, projnavadamscha bhashase , etc. - What is it that had birth? Whom do you call a man? If, instead of seeking explanation for birth, death and after-death matters, the
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question is raised as to who and how you are now, these questions will not arise. You are the same while asleep (deep sleep), in dream and in waking state. Is the `I' thought jiva, or the body jiva? Is this thought or nature? Or is the experience that we live, etc., our nature? (Quotes the sloka from the Gita: Yada te . . . II, 52.)
D.: Why is Atma vichara [?] necessary?
M.: If you do not make Atma vichara, then loka vichara creeps in. That which is not, is sought for, but not that which is obvious. When once you have found what you seek, vichara [?] (enquiry) also ceases and you rest in it. As long as one is confusing the body with the Atman, Atman is said to be lost and one is said to seek for it, but the ATMAN itself is never lost. It always exists. A body is said to be Atman, an indriya is said to be Atman, then there is the Jivatman [?] and Paramatman and what not. There are a thousand and one things called Atman. The search for Atman is to know that which is really Atman.