16th September, 1938

Talk 513.

Major Chadwick again gave his versified translation of the mantra ^[?] for Sri Bhagavan to read. Sri Bhagavan softly spoke of the interpretation of the Bhashyakara ^[?] and further explained the same. To consider the Brahmaloka as a region is also admissible. That is what the pouraniks say and many other schools also imply it by expounding kramamukti (liberation by degrees). But the Upanishads speak of sadyomukti ^[?] (immediate liberation) as in Na tasya prana utkramanti; ihaiva praleeyante - the pranas do not rise up; they lose themselves here. So Brahmaloka will be Realisation of Brahman (Brahmasakshatkara). It is a state and not a region. In the latter case, paramritat must be properly understood. It is para ^[?] inasmuch as avyakrita is the causal Energy transcending the universe, amrita ^[?] because it persists until the Self is realised. So that paramritat will mean avyakrita. The kramamukti (liberation by degrees) school say that the upasaka ^[?] goes to the region of his Ishta Devata ^[?] which is Brahmaloka to him. The souls passing to all other lokas return to be reborn. But those who have gained the Brahmaloka do not. Moreover those desirous of a particular loka ^[?] can by proper methods gain the same. Whereas Brahmaloka cannot be gained so long as there is any desire left in the person. Desirelessness alone will confer the loka on him. His desirelessness signifies the absence of the incentive for rebirth.

The age of Brahma is practically immeasurable. The presiding deity of the loka is said to have a definite period of life. When he passes away his loka also is dissolved. The inmates are emancipated at the same
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time, irrespective of the different nature of individual consciousness in them prior to Self-realisation.

The kramamukti school objects to the idea of sadyomukti (immediate liberation) because the Jnani ^[?] is supposed to lose body-consciousness at the same time that ignorance is dispelled but he continues to live in the body. They ask, "How does the body function without the mind?" The answer is somewhat elaborate:

Knowledge (jnana) is not incompatible with ignorance (ajnana ^[?]) because the Self in purity is found to remain along with ignorance-seed (ajnana beeja) in sleep. But the incompatibility arises only in the waking and dream states.

Ajnana ^[?] has two aspects: avarana ^[?] (veiling) and vikshepa ^[?] (multiplicity). Of these, avarana (veiling) denotes the veil hiding the Truth. That prevails in sleep. Multiplicity (vikshepa) is activity in different times. This gives rise to diversity and prevails in waking and dream states (jagrat ^[?] and svapna ^[?]). If the veil, i.e., avarana is lifted, the Truth is perceived. It is lifted for a Jnani and so his karana sarira ^[?] (causal body) ceases to exist. Vikshepa ^[?] alone continues for him. Even so, it is not the same for a Jnani as it is for an ajnani ^[?]. The ajnani has all kinds of vasanas, i.e., kartrtva (doership) and bhoktrtva (enjoyership), whereas the Jnani has ceased to be doer (karta ^[?]). Thus only one kind of vasana ^[?] obtains for him. That too is very weak and does not overpower him, because he is always aware of the Sat-Chit-Ananda ^[?] nature of the Self. The tenuous bhoktrtva vasana is the only remnant of the mind left in the Jnani and he therefore appears to be living in the body. This explanation when applied to the mantra amounts to this: A Jnani has his karana sarira destroyed; the sthula sarira ^[?] (gross body) has no effect on him and is for all practical purposes destroyed too. The sukshma sarira ^[?] (subtle body) alone remains. It is otherwise called ativahika sarira ^[?]. It is this which is held by all persons after the physical body is given up. And with this they traverse to other lokas until another suitable physical body is taken. The Jnani is supposed to move in Brahmaloka with this sukshma sarira. Then that is also dissolved and he passes to final Liberation.

The whole explanation is meant only for the onlooker. The Jnani himself will never raise such questions. He knows by his experience that he is not bound by any kind of limitations.

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D.: What is the `final emancipation' according to the foregoing explanation?

M.: The ativahika or the sukshma sarira corresponds to the pure light which one experiences just after sleep and before the rise of the ego. It is Cosmic Consciousness. That is only the Light reflected from the Heart. When the reflection ceases and abides as the Original Light in the Heart it is final emancipation.

D.: But Yoga Vasishtha says that the chitta ^[?] (mind) of a jivanmukta ^[?] is achala ^[?] (unchanging).

M.: So it is. Achala chitta (unchanging mind) is the same as suddha ^[?]

manas (pure mind). The jnani's manas is said to be suddha manas. The Yoga Vasishtha also says that Brahman ^[?] is no other than the jnani's mind. So Brahman is suddha manas only.

D.: Will the description of Brahman as Sat-Chit-Ananda suit this suddha manas? For this too will be destroyed in the final emancipation.

M.: If suddha manas is admitted, the Bliss (Ananda ^[?]) experienced by the Jnani must also be admitted to be reflected. This reflection must finally merge into the Original. Therefore the jivanmukti ^[?] state is compared to the reflection of a spotless mirror in another similar mirror. What will be found in such a reflection? Pure Akasa ^[?] (Ether). Similarly, the jnani's reflected Bliss (Ananda) represents

only the true Bliss. These are all only words. It is enough that a person becomes antarmukhi (inward-bent). The sastras are not needed for an inward turned mind. They are meant for the rest.